trying to grok

Not that I'm a big Rush fan, but he maintains a large portion of the left is dominated by the love of symbolism over substance.

In this case, he's right, it's about making themselves feel good and nothing more.

Sarah - I agree with you 100%. During the run up to the election I was dismayed at how many people I know have COMPLAINTS about the war, etc. but have done NOTHING to help a soldier or an Iraqi citizen. They didn't know anything about Iraq except for stereotypical things spread by the news. I tried my level best to send them Chrenkoff's Good News from Iraq, etc. but they all still don't get it. Some of us DO help to make a difference. Some of them would just rather judge and do nothing. I'm glad I'm on your side!

I can't believe you are surprised by this! You look at all the milbloggers and the conservative bloggers and they are always helping to raise money for some person or group in need. They are also promoting organizations which support the troops or support the Israeli's or support Iraqi's or support for the Afghani's. Where do you ever see that on a lefty blog. The only thing they will raise money is a political candidate. This is just par for the course. Lefty's want to steal my money to give away, why, because they think they are entitlted to steal my money.

To those on the far left, intentions and feelings are everything. Substance does not exist.

What a bunch of smug, dumb hypocrits you all. The US invaded Iraq based on lies, bleeds American taxpayers dry funding this unending quagmire, and then you pro-war types turn around and sniff "you hearless lefties; you prefer style over substance, you're awful and cheap...shriek!". You broke the bloody thing, fix it your goddamn selves and stop trying to blame this crap on other people.

Which one of us has done more to help the people of Iraq?

Well, I would have to guess it's the folks that didn't go over there and start killing the Iraqis, destroying their homes and mosques, ruining the power grid with our excellent Shock and Awe, etc.

Ask Rumsfeld or Bush if they have any hot ideas for improving Iraqis' lives before you go around criticizing the folks who think we shouldn't have wrecked the country in the first place.

You may be well-meaning, but by blegging for money to send body armor you are emphasizing the Liberal lie that President Bush and Sec. Rumsfeld are not doing enough to provide for our Troops. Of course they are!

The best way to support them is not to bleg for money, but to get involved yourselves and to do everything you can. Otherwise you are just as bad as those Liberal Chickendoves and that makes all of us look bad.

If you are really a Patriot, then this is how you can really help America, but only if you believe President Bush about Sacrifice.

And please stop spreading disinformation about our Troops not having enough life-saving equipment and their lives being at risk, you are giving aid to the Enemy every time you further this Liberal lie.

Gosh, do you think that maybe this person got such a cold reception at Atrios because he prefaced his plea for money with a stupid, fucktard ranting about the civil war and some other wing-nut crap?

"I'd say it's a pretty good thing your side wasn't running things during the Civil War, don't you?"

That's a hell of a way to open a request for money.

"If you believe the war was wrong, shouldn't you believe the people of Iraq were right and thus want to help them?"

Yes, I hate Bush so much, I just want to give all my money to Iraqis. I really feel, deep down, that the tens of billions of unaccounted money spent by US taxpayers just isn't enough. I need to give my personal money directly to some middleman entity which will then syphon it to some Iraqis [potentially].

What a way to be better than a liberal!

Hmmm, I guess I'm just not a Friend of Iraq. Just not my problem. Go find some other sucker.

Nothing like a few posts to prove the point...

Can't please the left - according to them, we set up Sadam, but we were bad because we took him down and ruined the utopia he'd created. Even in the logic that we shouldn't have gone in and done what we did, how would it be wrong to fix it?!?

The rest of the world is being forced to grudgingly acknowledge that at least a few things are better in Iraq than they were before the war. Even Canada is getting in on the act by helping to get the elections set up! But the American left still gives a collective shrug and yawn. I. just. don't. get. it.

I could buy that there could be possible trust issues with an organization; if that's truly the case, then find some like-minded people and START YOUR OWN! There's more than enough work to do.

But if you just don't care, well, I can't help you with that one. Personally, I'm rather fond of this freedom thing, and glad to do what I can to help others enjoy it as well.

This LGF-reader has a legitimate point, I do believe. However, I don't know why he/she kept coming back and spouting garbage like:

Why bother counting brown people? Besides, you have to break a few eggs.

and:

Once when I was pleasuring my cat, it scratched me and I accidentally killed it. I was pretty depressed for a couple of months after that but then I found LGF and it made everything better.

It was entirely unnecessary; the person could have made just that one post and gone away instead of partaking in the trolling, and I bet someone would have taken it to heart. Atrios has a large readership.

I'm a liberal and I resent your false insinuation that we on the left do not give generously to charitable causes.

This "Spirit of America" charity is just a thinly disguised PR campaign to mislead Iraqis who are, with good reason, pissed off about being occupied by US. (Go to the "Riverbend" blog and read what a young Iraqi woman who is well-educated, English-speaking, and a religious moderate has to say about this subject!)

The closest equivalent would be the Chinese giving little presents to all the kids in Tibet to prove how wonderful Chinese occupation is.

You guys on the right might consider donating to that charity Oprah Winfrey has been publicizing, the one that pays for education for girls in Afganistan. Or UNICEF, another great charity that helps impoverished kids all over the world.

Alright, granted, those posts could have been by a namejacker... it's impossible to tell. I 95%-renege.

The "Riverbend" blog I mentioned is at

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

maybe the left is unhappy that americans are dying so that you can sit around and type "at least a few things are better in Iraq than they were before the war."

if you care about iraq you'll go there instead of clicking a paypal logo. hypocrite.

liberals merely notice the condition of *america* and think it is lame that Bush is feeding the fire of regression while americans die for lies.

can't imagine why anyone'd be upset about that.

I consider myself 'left', and the reason you haven't noticed a sudden swell of compassion (and money) in me for the plight of the Iraqis is that I feel the same way I always have. I didn't ignore the plight of the Iraqis before the war, so you won't see me make a big fuss that I'm suddenly starting to donate to a needy cause.
Also, I prefer to pick a worldwide charity, and rely on them to redirect my donations to the most needy rather than look after my pet issue, or whichever needy country is in vogue at the time.

It's also wrong to say that leftist blogs are dominated by political charity. In the lead up to the election yes, but I have noticed plenty of encouragement on leftist blogs to donate to Iraq, send gifts, support the troops, etc.

I, and my leftist friends, do take action for charity. However, habit is rarely as noticiable as a sudden campaign.

I dunno, maybe it's because it's kind of hard to be spending money on either side when it's Battlin' Theocracies[tm] you've got going on there.

On one side, the people who want the populace to bow to the preachers, women to be subservient, homosexuals outlawed and all in all to go back to a Dark Ages mentality of "might makes right" - and on the other: the Islamofascists.

It'd be funny if it wasn't threatening the whole world.

You know how you can tell when you've REALLY hit the nail on the head? You know what tells you that you've managed to skewer the Left with the cold, hard truth in a way that they can neither admit nor deny? When trolls flood your blog and your email inbox with raw, dripping hatred and hysterical talking points repeated over and over. And that's what I see here, Sarah. Congratulations on a MASTERFUL post full of absolute, undeniable truth.

he maintains a large portion of the left is dominated by the love of symbolism over substance.

Well...while I am more sympathetic to the right than not, we have to acknowledge that $60000 is nothing.

Our current spending rate in Iraq is $5.8 billion per month. If you do the calculation, that comes out to $8 million dollars per hour .

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002494.html

So even raising one hundred thousand dollars works out to less than one minute of our expenses in Iraq.

One must conclude that this gesture of the right, well intentioned as it is, is just as meaningless & symbolic as most of those on the left.

"Congratulations on a MASTERFUL post full of absolute, undeniable truth."

mmmhmm...you're essentially trying to vilify half of the US population based on what occured on a blog comments section. Sounds like absolute, undeniable truth to me.
"My old roommate writes anti-war poems. I donated to Spirit of America. Which one of us has done more to help the people of Iraq?"
how do you know your old roommate didn't donate money to a similar organization? You people are grasping at straws. Also, the logic you are using is similar to "I'm better than you because after I broke this guy's leg, I bought him some icecream and you didn't."

And yet, what have all of you lefties done to help the people of Iraq?

Anything at all?

I haven't seen a single lefty troll say what they have actually done, as in, what effort has been put forth?

$60,000 may not be much compared to the government coffers, but it is far and above what any of the commentors that decry it have done, and this is private individuals donating of their own free will.

I'm sure the majority of you would spout that you also support the troops. I challenge anyone who says so, to describe what actions they have taken that provided support. Actions people, not words that make you feel warm and snuggly inside. Deeds are what make a difference in the world.

Show your substance.

Sarah, you forgot "clueless", the phrase on Eschaton was "Cluless fucktard dumb".

I read in OpinionJournal last month about a study of charitable giving:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005897#selfish

The study shows that red states are more charitable than blue states. In fact, the top 25 most-generous states are all "Bush" states:

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org/cfp/db/generosity.php?year=2004

It would seem that liberals are only "giving" when it comes to other people's money.

Any money you guys raise is just going to Halliburton. Fools

U leftists still going with that Halliburto crap?
Seriously, if u though it was so wrong when US liberated Iraq, what did u guys (the Left) do when Saddam was gassing his own people?
Clap and dance in the streets? Celebrate the absolute dictatorial soverignity of a tyrant?
Come on, tell me, what did the Left ever do?
Let's see, they supported communisim, call their own leader a bastard and wanted to hand over their country to the United Nicompoops (UN).
If u said that in my country, u've gone to jail for being a traitor.
BTW, I am from an asian country and I support Bush.
Finally a world leader (since Reagan) who dares to call evil by its name; evil.

what did u guys (the Left) do when Saddam was gassing his own people?

Well, we didn't do the Reagan administration: actually sell him the gas.

And then remain politely silent when he used it.

Claire mentions donating to international organizations. Good for you in trying to do something helpful.

I would like to point out, though, that the amount of each dollar you donate that actually gets to the end-user is probably extremely low. Many NGOs have a 10% effectiveness. The difference in these donations through the net is that they are far more direct, more quickly get where they need to go, and have far less overhead. The international equivalent of the Salvation Army.

This lefty hasn't directly helped Iraqis (yet), but has donated money for homeless veterans...but perhaps you don't think of that as "substance". No worries if you don't though, I don't help people for the accolades or in some bizarre spirit of competition.

I would add that the reality-based community tried to do what was best for the people of Iraq suffering from GWBush's "humble" foreign policy: to unseat the lying war criminal.

The show trials are beginning in advance of a legitimate government; the re-un-destruction has barely crawled ahead; you can't drive from Baghdad to the airport in safety.

If more of you people were patriots instead of one-winged parrots, you would have sacked the incompetents (who have only saved you the bill for all this temporarily, by renting our collective future to the Chinese)! This would be acting upon substance. And, as your own commenter mentions above, influencing one's own government's much more effective than some tiny PR campaign.

Security is job #1. It remains undone. You cannot improve the lives of Iraqis without fixing this (and $60,000 will only buy you one mercenary for half a year!)

"And please stop spreading disinformation about our Troops not having enough life-saving equipment and their lives being at risk...."

So, if you don't like the truth, its disinformation? Have fun in your hermetically sealed world, winger.

And where, exactly, does this money go? How do I know it's "Helping get a free Iraq off the ground"? How do I know it's helping any Iraqis?

Fair questions to be put to anyone that asks for a hand-out based on a guilt-trip. Answer, please?

the previous posts brought to you by "Curse the Darkness INC" a Soros Corporation

I actually did the best thing one could do to help the Iraqi people and our troops. I voted for Kerry. Leftie blogs that are pushing for political change to expose the corrupt and inept leadership that has created the g*d-awful mess that our soldiers and the Iraqis currently suffer under. No matter how ineffective it was in the end, political change still does a lot more than channeling cash into the hands of charitable orgs that eat 80% of the donation into "administrative costs." Most charities are just trying to cure the symptoms. Corruption and clueless leadership are the real disease.

ok gno buddy, you don't like this charity (have you looked into the linked charities? Tell us what specifically is wrong with them. What do you propose to help the Iraqi people in a real substantive way now that the Kerry thing is moot? FYI I am a rare poor republican who cannot give to charities since I have effectively no spending money

The lefties don't even do anything for their OWN country, never mind Iraq. I was on one of their blogs yesterday and left a comment much to that effect. We can't fault them for ignoring Iraq if they don't even stand up and do for their own country once in a while.

"So even raising one hundred thousand dollars works out to less than one minute of our expenses in Iraq.

One must conclude that this gesture of the right, well intentioned as it is, is just as meaningless & symbolic as most of those on the left."

There is no meaning, only symbolism, if that $60,000 saves the life of ONE US soldier by reduces tension in a part of either Iraq or Afghanistan?

Is $60,000 only a symbol that, when used to build bridges in communities where our soldiers are fighting the war on terror, our troops are able to eliminate or reduce the number of civilians killed or injured by misunderstandings?

Although I realize I'm speaking to a mind sealed shut...

"Through baseball, school supplies and a genuine desire to help the people of Orgun-e, the American troops built close and positive relations with the villagers. Later, one night the soldiers suffered a rocket attack from Al Qaeda that snuck into the village from Pakistan. In response, the people of Orgun-e formed a “community watch.” Every night they patrolled the village area to protect the American soldiers. The rocket attacks stopped. Sergeant Smith says, “Once they saw we had a true blue interest in them, they joined with us. The things we did to help people in Orgun-e literally saved lives. Theirs and ours.”

http://www.spiritofamerica.net/cgi-bin/soa/site.pl?rm=page&page_id=183&category_id=1

A few hundred dollars made a significant difference.

And where, exactly, does this money go? How do I know it's "Helping get a free Iraq off the ground"? How do I know it's helping any Iraqis?
Fair questions to be put to anyone that asks for a hand-out based on a guilt-trip. Answer, please?

Visit the Spirit of America website. You'll find 13 projects that donations are being solicited for, 8 projects that are currently being implemented, and 7 that have been completed.

http://www.spiritofamerica.net/site/project_overview

Now that your question has been answered, what are your thoughts on the type of work Spirit of America (which consists of those troops everyone claims to support) is trying to accomplish?

I actually did the best thing one could do to help the Iraqi people and our troops. I voted for Kerry.

Did that help Iraq? Did that help our troops? Did they vote for Kerry?

No, no and no. Like it or not, you've done N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Trying isn't doing....

"You guys on the right might consider donating to that charity Oprah Winfrey has been publicizing, the one that pays for education for girls in Afganistan. Or UNICEF, another great charity that helps impoverished kids all over the world."

Good cause as well, and if the call for money had been to that one, I doubt this would even be an issue. What did atrios ask his loyal readers to contribute to the very next day? Media matters. Some day, you on the left may open your eyes and realize that it is not the right that is your enemy. I think by then it will be too late.

Let me get this straight...as a lefty, even though I prefer to contribute to a non-partisan charity that I trust which is sponsored by my Christian church, I obviously care nothing about America, the Iraqi people, and the rest of the world because I refuse to give to the right-leaning charity of YOUR choice.

Yup, lotta strawmen being built around this place.

Just...wow.

"I actually did the best thing one could do to help the Iraqi people and our troops. I voted for Kerry.

Did that help Iraq? Did that help our troops? Did they vote for Kerry?

No, no and no. Like it or not, you've done N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Trying isn't doing...."

You just don't get it Pablo... by voting Democratic, that is sufficient. The more one votes to tax others to support liberal causes, the less one needs to actually engage in "charity".

I am glad you are contributing Nikki, perhaps you can persuade gno buddy to contribute to your charity

Spirit of America is not a partisan organization. The projects are both suggested, and carried out by our troops whose boots are on the ground in Iraq. It only seems like it's right leaning because it appears to be right-leaning people that are putting their money where their mouths are.

The question here pertains to the blogosphere. What lefty blogs are raising money to do anything other than attack the right?

Did any of the lefty blogs post this:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12816

The more one votes to tax others to support liberal causes, the less one needs to actually engage in "charity".

That doesn't sound pro-choice. Typical liberal...let's donate everyone else's money!

By voting Democratic, you've accomplished zero. The Republicans just took a clean sweep...White House, Senate, House, Governorships...they pulled ahead on every front, and the SCOTUS is next.

If you want to do something useful as a democrat, work to restore loyal opposition to your party, so that it might have a chance in the future.

No, billhedrick, I don't have to persuade anyone to contribute to my charity. My point is you all have made a lot of baseless assumptions simply because the people at Atrios' site are not amenable to contributing to your charity. You should be proud of yourselves for raising as much as you have for the Iraqi people. It has obviously been a successful joint effort. Why would you want to besmirch that with ugliness because you couldn't convince the left-leaners to help out? Since when does charitable efforts turn into "holier than thou" attitudes?

"...you're essentially trying to vilify half of the US population based on what occured on a blog comments section"

Well, yeah.

Go back a re-read the frothing hate and dripping venom from the reactionary leftists.

well, nikki as I alluded to there is an old saying "it is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness." If you will review this thread I think you will see that you are the onlyself-described liberal here that is doing anything but cursing the darkness. We can differ on many things, but I think we can agree that doing something for others is more profitable than criticizing the efforts and not doing anything substantive.

"Go back a re-read the frothing hate and dripping venom from the reactionary leftists."

Oh please. There are how many commentors on that blog? And how many people make up half the US population? I am a die-hard liberal; my boyfriend is a die-hard conservative, yet somehow we get along very well. Miraculous, isn't it? Can we please attempt to not tar EVERYONE whose views are opposite to ours with the same brush? Aren't we supposed to be grownups?

Since when does charitable efforts turn into "holier than thou" attitudes?

That would be right about the time that the left decided conservative = racist, warmongering, greedy, imperialistic, lying, theocratic, bigoted fascist.

The compassionate left seems to be sorely lacking compassion which, oddly enough, has turned up on the right. The irony is stunning.

Half of the country?

How many people, roughly 280 million.

Half is what, 140 million?

60 Million voted for Bush. Thats less than 25% of the country, and Kerry lost, yet you claim to represent half?

"If you will review this thread I think you will see that you are the onlyself-described liberal here that is doing anything but cursing the darkness."

No, billhedricks, I respectfully submit that I am the only one WHO HAS ADMITTED to what I am doing. None of us knows what others, be they liberal or conservative, are doing in their personal lives.

"That would be right about the time that the left decided conservative = racist, warmongering, greedy, imperialistic, lying, theocratic, bigoted fascist."

Hey, some of my best friends are conservatives!

Nikki, you sound like a reasonable gal and here in America, I think that's the most we can expect of each other. Unfortunately, a great number of liberals have gone completely around the bend, over the top, and very much out of their minds. Thank you for not being one of them.

None of us knows what others, be they liberal or conservative, are doing in their personal lives.

Well, we can tell what Sean is up to:

The more one votes to tax others to support liberal causes, the less one needs to actually engage in "charity".

I think Sean was being sarcastic...

Whoops! You're right, of course. I confused Sean with Gno Buddy. Sorry, Sean.

Nikki, that is a point, but I really don't understand someone who would be accused of not doing something they are doing and not defend themselves. After all you did.

Y'all broke Iraq, YOU fix it. Bush is already pissing far too many of my tax dollars away on his little crusade. Let those who support him and his stupid holy war pay for the damages.

"Unfortunately, a great number of liberals have gone completely around the bend, over the top, and very much out of their minds."

And I have seen a lot of conservatives do the same. This election seems to have brought out the worst in some people. I've seen extremely ugly comments made by both sides on each other's blogs, in the print media, and on television. The level of political vitriol rampaging throughout this country has left me heartsick.

"Nikki, that is a point, but I really don't understand someone who would be accused of not doing something they are doing and not defend themselves. After all you did."

Yes, but the way I choose to respond does not mean that others need respond likewise. We are individuals long before we are political party members.

To everyone who has responded to me, thank you for allowing me to express myself. I wish we could maintain this level of discourse throughout the blogosphere.

Happy Holidays!

muddle, I think you miss the point, it's about charity. It's about caring for the sufferings of others. The point people have noted (and it's not just about Iraq, afterall you have to get through 25 red states in per capita charitable giving before you hit a blue one) is that leftists seem to talk more than give.

OI posted this yesterday -- and it mysteriously disappeared! Let's try again. Google, and ye shall find. Liberals (aghast) supporthing the _very same_ fund drive that you claim that they are not:

http://liberalcoalition.blogspot.com/2004_11_28_liberalcoalition_archive.html#110176727849356459

Fascinating!

Lefties are all liars. All liars about everything all the time. You lefties make me so darned MAD. I’m just glad GOD will punish all you Lefties and RAPTURE me up to GLORY along with our beloved President who has never ever ever ever lied, ever. Our Glorious Leader NEVER said that Iraqi was trying to get all the new-cue-ler stuff and I don’t care what kind of EVIL, America-hating, JEW controlled fake video tapes you show of the so-called “State of the Union” speech where you CLAIM he said such things. He NEVER SAID THAT, so quit saying he did. And America was NEVER any ally of Satan Hussein. And SATAN Hussein DID plan 9/11. And that Chalabi fella told the TRUTH about Bin Laden being SATAN Hussein’s best friend.
And our Beloved Vice President NEVER worked for this Halli Berri Company!
And our Beloved President Nixon was RAILROADED by JEWS and hippies.
And EVERYONE lies except Rush and the Reverend Doctor Falwell and Ann Coulter and LGF.
And 9/11 was because of the FEMINAZIS and QUEERS, just like Falwell says.
And the Earth is 6000 years old and we did NOT COME from monkeys.
And COLUMBINE was because they handed out CONDOMS and taught about us coming from MONKEYS, just like Our Beloved Tom DeLay said.
And we have NOT spent 200 billion dollars in Iraq.
And we DID SO find WMDs there, even though NO ONE ever said it was an absolutely sure thing they were there.
And LIBERALS hate America. NO liberal has ever gone to war, given blood, given to charity, fought for worker rights, or ANYTHING else.
And Our Beloved President NEVER said he was not worried about Bin Laden and I don’t care what that LYING video tape says.
And EVERYONE who does not agree with everything I believe is stoopid and EVIL and wants to DESTROY America.
And I am NOT HATEFUL for saying that everyone who does not agree with me is EVIL and HATES America and should be curb-stomped or BEATEN to death with a claw hammer.
And if you disagree about how we did Iraq, you must LOVE Satan Hussein and HATE our Beloved Soldiers.
And if you think we have made STOOPID, HORRIBLE mistakes in Iraq that will breed a thousand new terrorists for every one we manage to kill, you HATE America.
And the PATRIOTIC thing to do if you think our Beloved President made “STOOPID, HORRIBLE mistakes” in Iraq – and is in the process of making MANY MANY more – is to SHUT UP and join his side.
And the right thing to do, you AMERICA HATING liberal, is to get up every morning and thank GOD and Our Beloved Leader and the Reverend Doctor Falwell that you don’t live in a country run by HATEFUL, IGNORANT religious BIGOTS.
And above all, I know that that my LOUD, IGNORANT assertions are better than ACTUAL FACTS because my GOD and Our Beloved Leader and the Reverend Doctor Falwell tell me so.

Yours in Christ,

driftglass

DO NOT contribute to UNICEF. They are notorious for their bloated overhead--nearly 90% of contributions go to admin, salaries, etc.
I love the lefty comments here: "You broke Iraq, you fix it." Gee, wasn't there some guy named Saddam involved?
And it was the GERMANS (remember them being against the war?) who sold Saddam the gas supplies, not us.
Same old crap...how boring.

Pablo,

I just got back to my computer. I will check out the site you recommended, and answer your question. One honest answer deserves another. If both sides followed this axiom we might actually learn something from each other (Perish the thought!).

Pablo,

I just ran through the list of projects, didn't actually read what each one was about. From the looks of it, they're all pretty good stuff.

I don't dig this war. I was against it from the start b/c it seemed apparent to me that the Bush admin. wasn't being up front about why it was doing it. Unfortunately, I think I was right on that score.

You break it, you buy it speaks to taking responsibility for mistakes. It kind of sucks that we (meaning the citizenry instead of the admin. who made what I call a mistake) are called on to help mend this one when it didn't have to happen, and some of us warned against it; BUT that doesn't relieve us from the obligation of mending it - we are part of this country.

That being said, if I were one given to donating to causes, I might consider one of these. As it is I hoard my money for the sake of my wife and daughter. I supported Kerry by displaying a bumper sticker in Mississippi (risking my car getting keyed), asking others to support him, and voting for him. He didn't get any of my cash. I guess I'm cheap, but my family comes first and when times are hard (and these days they are - I know, harder for the Iraqis) I watch out for us. Also, there are a damn lot of bogus charities out there. Especially around Christmas.

This looks like good stuff, though. No reason not to support them just b/c they're linked to the military. So is toys-for-tots for God's sake.

As for blaming lefties for not contributing to that charity - don't; charititable giving isn't charitable if not donated to freely w/o expectation of others doing the same. In other words, you do it to help others, not to show others up.

Us lefties shouldn't dump on these particular charities just b/c we don't agree with the politics of those supporting them, either. Charities shouldn't be tools for political gamesmanship.

Good on you if you sacrifice your own money to help these people. Santa should be good to you this year.

Why is this the center of a political argument at all?

P.S. Good on LGF, as well as any other site/blogger/organization for showcasing and supporting these charities as well (if they are as good as they appear to be at first blush). I sincerely hope that people do give generously (even if I don't), and that the money helps in real and tangible ways to ease the suffering of the Iraqi people.

It's nice to see LGF putting their money where thier mouth is instead of just blasting everyone who disagrees with the administration.

Constructive activities should be encouraged.

I would actually like to see Atrios or dailykos take a good thourough look into these charities, and see if they couldn't help. Unfortunately, it seems that partisanship (on BOTH sides) requires viciousness and an "other-side-is-always-wrong mentality" so I don't think that will happen.

Look for left blogs to find their own good charities to push instead, and blame the righties for not supporting them.

It's an f'd up political scene out there. I don't know how it got started, but it's gotta stop sooner or later or our political process will crumble for lack of popular support. In the meantime, we ought to be able to cross partisan lines to join in constructive activities. If that's not possible, maybe the whole partisan thing needs to be re-evaluated (again, from BOTH sides).

P.P.S. Why does Sarah dump on her ex-roomate for writing anti-war poetry. Should artists not give in ways they feel appropriate? At least her ex-roomate cares. Holier-than-thou is unbecoming and cheapens the charitable effort.

Dang, I was reading "wha?" and thinking that his was the kindest comment from the Left I'd heard. Then he threw in his snarky P.P.S. Wha, you should meet my ex-roommate, then decide who's sanctimonious.

As for blaming lefties for not contributing to that charity - don't; charititable giving isn't charitable if not donated to freely w/o expectation of others doing the same. In other words, you do it to help others, not to show others up.

----------

You don't get the blogosphere, do you? At least not this corner of it.

The whole purpose OF sponsoring SOA like this was to get attention in the first place, kick up a little dust, start a little flame war and get mad props.

Any normal group of adults would simply feel good about doing good, instead of using it an excuse for finger-pointing and "Us vs. Them" childishness.

Rather revealing, when you think about it.

My old roommate writes anti-war poems. I donated to Spirit of America. Which one of us has done more to help the people of Iraq?

Depends on the poem and where your money ends up going.

Code Pink raised 75K for Iraq recently.
http://www.codepink4peace.org/

That's great, johnx. I'm glad to hear it. It's much nicer to hear people point out organizations that I didn't know of instead of saying "it's not my problem"...good for Code Pink for taking action.

A question to antiwar and proud.
Can you please reveal a reference to your allegation that Reagan sold gas to Saddam.
I cannot seem to find any (is it because your allegation is false?)
Here is my reference that leftists did nothing other than complain
Go to this site:
http://dissectleft.blogspot.com/
Rightists please read this blog, one of the best right-wing blog on the net/

This post reminds me of a Mennonite preacher I once met who berated us for not being as humble as he was...

"I'm more humble and modest than any of you! I'm the most humble, modest person you'll ever meet!"

Just because someone doesn't respond positively to sanctimonious, self serving, insulting "challenges" doesn't mean they don't care.

Wanna help in this world? How many of these organizations have you given to?

http://www.oxfam.org/

http://www.ifrc.org/

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/

http://www.amnesty.org/

"fucktard dumb" about sums it up for this post, I think...

Sarah -

Is she hot?

Kidding! Just Kidding! -
Wife & baby!

Holy smokes! I'd have to say you hit a nerve.

The best off-topic is the "Well I voted for Kerry" bit. Yeah, last time people went Kerry's way, 2-3 million people died in Cambodia and 87 million ended up living in tyranny for 30 years. Good on ya!

The "you're no better than me because you say you are better than me" is precisely what the point IS. Duh. Substance is better than words. So... substance...?

The "you shouldn't taint your charity with a challenge" is a non sequitur. The challenge doesn't reduce the morality of the charity, UNLESS you already view the charity purely or largely in terms of motive. The charity occured first. The challenge came from the sound of crickets on the left (one must excuse them - you have to have a job to donate money). But even if you challenge the left to put up or shut up (they rarely ever do) the more interesting question is whether any gains in charity is outweighed in a moral sense by where it came from or how it came about. This is a systemic problem for the left, which too often sees intent as the primary moral measurement of a historic fact. Thus, the left cannot bring itself to condemn Communism because it's intentions were supposedly angelic (if I may use the term loosely). Just as it only begrudges the bounties of capitalism (if it praises at all) because capitalism is a system that uses self interest instead of pretends to have the means to conquer it.

The question is, sactimonious, self-serving (that's funny...) and all, at the end of the day, WHAT DID YOU DO? No. WHAT. DID. YOU. DO. It's not Halliburton. It's not about your ego. It's about what you did or did not do. That's adulthood knocking. Answer the door.

Ok, you got Riverbend (out of Juan Cole, non?). Try Iraq the Model. Aww, shit. Just try the other 22-25 million Iraqis who aren't fighting us.

"We broke it." No, most of it was broken over the last 30 years (or, say, the last 1300). This argument assumes things really were like they seem in a Michael Moore movie. Wrong.

Anti-semitism? Look at left-wing colleges. There, you will find the greatest of it in America today. Paraphrase MLK: Anti-zionism IS Anti-semitism. Because nobody (and by that I mean the stain that is Europe as well) will countenance the Great Other, the Jew, except perhaps America. So to strip them of Israel is to strip them of the only safe haven they have had for 2,500 years. Capiche? Now that you know, you have no excuse.

Besides, don't you find it dumb when a leftist calls you out of one side of his mouth, "Likudnik, NeoCon, Zionist, Nazi-asshole (or similar dribble)" and out the other, "Anti-semite"?

Halliburton? Does any "It's all for Halliburton!" fanatic ever check Halliburton's financials instead of parrot stupid claims? Do you know how to read a balance sheet?

"Wrong war / wrong place" Cop-out. Tell me, what were we doing in the Kasserine Pass, so far away from Tokyo and Pearl Harbor? Why was it the first large-scale land engagement of WWII, and how many troops did we lose there in what amount of time? Look it up. Then look in a mirror.

The talk/give thing in relation to red/blue states is unsurprising. This is related to the faith/state view. Charity (and I'm talking as an atheist) is a function of moral and religious imperative on the right. On the left, it is problem-solving for the State. Thus, because the government giveth, the individual doth not. She gave at the office. Obviously, this is a generalization, but that does not lessen the trend.

How much do you give to *these* other organizations? Well, let's talk about some of what those orgs do, including their political efforts, such as the Red Crescent's war crime of using ambulances to transport terrorists. Or Oxfam's idiotic belief that poor people die because rich people do not give money (and there you sit bitching about Halliburton, when all you have to do is look at left-luminaries like Castro, Mugabe, Taylor, Arafat, and on and on to see what real kleptocracy is like), when the best thing rich countries can do is help make poor countries more - not less - capitalistic, and that the worse things rich countries do is try to embark on self-serving foolishness like banning DDT (killing millions upon millions of poor brown people via the very nasty way to die of malaria every year).

You want to help poor farmers? Here's a way: kick the agricultural lobby here AND in Europe straight in the ass. They block out the only goods these poor people have to sell with their luddite fears of genetically modified and foreign foodstuffs.

If we find some of those things counter-productive (and that's not to say we disagree with even a majority of what they do) should we fund them?

But all this misses the essential point of this post: you are bitching about Iraq. So do something POSITIVE about Iraq. Not just stand in the way. Not just make it hard for American troops to do their job, Iraqis-be-damned. So if you think "fucktard dumb" about sums it up, I think you've got more thinking to do.

Great post Sarah.
From reading all the other posts, I'm glad there are some rational liberals out there who put their money where their mouth is and actually help others. So many I know rely on the State to help instead of getting out and doing something on their own. It's nice to see once in awhile people arguing points respectfully instead of attacking the other person.

For those who disagree with our point. We are not saying "we're better than you", we're saying "YOU are the one complaining, so either DO SOMETHING about it or STOP WHINING".

Even if you don't give, arguing consructively is fine, but the attacks and hatred, well it's funny how much anger and abuse I get from the "compassionate" left. I don't treat people that way, but I am the evil one.

The funny thing is, all the hate and holier than thou attitude some on the Left have, I had back when I was a Democrat, when I was 25 and swayed by ad hominem arguments.

I think part of the reason was I thought "well this is the right thing to do, so if anyone is against it they have something wrong with them." Not until later I realized the "right thing to do" is the start of the argument, not the end, since there are many "right" things to do.

PlutosDad
http://eyesontheball.blogspot.com
News Satire that's right for you

Dirty lefty secret time:

I don't care fuckall about Iraqis (and neither do any of you smug self-satisfied righties.) I didn't in 2000 and I don't today. You wrote a check? Wow! You want a medal?

Get off your freedom-loving, Iraqi-supporting poop basket and go spend your time and risk your life to help them, you care so fucking much! Flights are resumed, what are you waiting for? Isn't freedom for the poor Iraqis worth it to you?

After I post this I will make out a check to Jerry Falwell which will prove that I am a more dedicated Christian than any of you who never have.

Goat Boy. A news flash, you do not have telepathic powers.

I may not. But I live and breathe, friend. Please do let me know how much you care for Iraqis and why you choose them as receptacles for your care as opposed to, for example, the citizens of any of the countries in our coalition of the willing who have lives that are...less than free.

You care about them because the administration chose that country to invade? Rather arbitrary criteria for choosing to unload such bottomless caring upon a people.

Uhh Goatboy- the "secret" about leftists not really giving a f*ck about Iraqis---

It isn't really a secret- anymore - didn't you read the link to Atrios before you commented?

Poopbasket. Good idea. maybe we should do a fundraiser for Sarah and buy her a poopbasket for comments like yours.

What did I do to support the troops? I sent money to the USO? What did I do to help prevent the conflict? Argued against the invasion, and pointed out the the Bush administration was lying about everything from the threat to the US posed by the Iraq, Iraq's association with 911, and their readiness to come to terms with the realities of the occupation (It gives me no comfort that I was correct on all fronts). What did I do to to make the situation better? I voted for Kerry.

What did you do?

-

You lied to us about why we should go to war. You lied to us about why we are at war. You lied to the troops about why they don't have armor and equipment. You are lieing to yourself if you think Iraq will ever be a domocracy, and you are lieing to yourself if you don't think we all will be paying for this boondoggle for the next twenty years. And now your asking me for compensation to Iraqis for what all you lies have caused.

What kind of fool do you think I am?

Yea, I'll give a little something.

you mean friends of the future shiite mini-iran? how many of the "friends of iraq" dollars will actually go to people who need them and how many will be going to pleople like the new saddam? you f*ckin self contradicting morons on the right are driving the US and Iraq off the cliff.

Rev Churchmouse, Sarah already has a poop basket.

It's where she pulls her posts, statistics analysis and reasoning from.

You want to help? No whining, no saying you're too fat or too old.

Enlist: http://www.arng.army.mil/

losers.

Interesting...these Spirit of America folks really do not want you knowing who they are...their domain registration onfo is bogus:

Registrant:
spiritofamerica.net
123 main
Los Angeles, CA 90199
US

Domain Name: SPIRITOFAMERICA.NET

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
spiritofamerica.net
Staff Contact
123 main
Los Angeles, CA 90199
US
310-555-1212
310-356-6015 [fax]
staff@spiritofamerica.net

Domain created on 13-Sep-2001
Domain expires on 13-Sep-2006
Last updated on 24-Apr-2003

Domain servers in listed order:

NS.HMDNSGROUP.COM
NS2.HMDNSGROUP.COM

And their DNS servers in FL are listed as .192 ...

from RFC 1918:

192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
are reserved as private address space, specified in the RFC 1918. This means everybody can set up an internal network using addresses in these blocks, but packets originating from those addresses should never appear on the internet.

Consequently, the administrators of those internal networks are not obliged to register themselves with a whois database such as the RIPE database.

Thus, if you have received packets originating from these addresses, there is either a misconfiguration somewhere or the packets that you received contain a spoofed IP address, or they have been sent from within your own network.

All you good-meaning folks have likely been duped again. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bernie Kerik is on their board.

Sarah,

More controversy, please! I love reading all of these Michael Moore/John Kerry/Atrios followers repeating the same arguments over and over and over and over and...well, you get the point.

scout29c,

Please don't donate to ANY cause until you have invested in an education. I can't take anyone seriously that spells DEMOCRACY wrong.

Wow interested

you just proved their servers reside behind a firewall!

Oh my god! Firewall? Why would they need that? just because they take credit card orders?

get a life

PlutosDad
http://eyesontheball.blogspot.com
News Satire

Bushlover,

You confuse lack of education with lack of ablitiy to edit oneself. If I had no education, I would be a "Bushlover" like you and your kind.

Your old roommate has obviously done infinitely more for the people of Iraq than you will ever do for anyone in the world. Please stop hating America and God so damn much!

scout29c,

I am educated, thank you very much. And I don't need spell check to correctly spell "democracy", "lying", or the correct form of "you're". You asked what kind of fool I thought you were; I'm just telling you.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

--Herbert Spencer

Kind of makes you think about many of the comments on this thread, doesn't it? Representatives from both sides of the argument need to take a deep collective breath, and then try talking to each other rather than over each other, with my thanks to the several of you who already are. Cheers!

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