trying to grok

I seem to be surrounded by gay women (especially at work). I've had gay women as roommates from college and after college. The one theme which seems consistent to me about lesbians is that of a dysfunctional family. Could be abusive father, alcoholism...along those lines. I honesty do not believe the majority of women who say they are lesbians really are, I think it's the safer option for them.

I can almost see where you're coming from on the "fairy tale" remark - all those cute little happily ever after couples in fairy tales are all straight, so how dare a gay or lesbian couple feel like they're free to see their relationship in those terms. How rude.

As for Tonit's comments, I won't even bother, but it's interesting that they say they are "surrounded by lesbians" but not "friends" with them.

Rational and reasoned thought has always been lacking, but moreso since Sept, 11th happened. I

...and with your narrow and bigoted points of view, I can also see a future for you being nothing else more than barefoot and preggars, I thought you were a better person than that...never mind...I can choose to not feel my blood pressure rise by reading your opinion, and that's what I'm going to do.

Romances in fairy tales ususally involve princes and princesses, don't they? So if you are going to be literal enough about what counts as a fairy tale romance, does that mean that the phrase can only be used in connection with royalty? (Not that most of recent royal romances are of what I would call fairy tale quality.)

Oh lord, everyone. My point is that a substantial number of Americans don't view the world the way it's portrayed on TV. It's not a personal attack on anyone. I never said that lesbians can't be happy or completely in love...only that there are no same-sex fairy tales. My comment had nothing to do with you, Beth; I never even thought of you when I was writing that because I didn't see it as a dig against homosexuals. I simply pointed out that the media doesn't reflect the views of many Americans, even if I don't agree with those people in this case.

I didn't take the comment personally, I'm just trying to point out a hetero-normative way of viewing things. Yes, I am aware that the operative part of that phrase is normative which is your point. Would you be offended if someone was saying African Americans couldn't use the term fairy tale because they were written by and for white europeans?

sarah tv really doesn't and shouldn't in some cases reflect the views of a substanial group of americans.it does it for a reason.that reason ishomosexuality,inter-racial relationships are tolerable,normal and everyday.as far as the hate-crimes aspect goes well it's simple.in nyc white on black crime is racial.black on white crime is crime.not always of course but generally.that's just the way it is.

Beth, I don't know if for me the analogy works, because I think I, and most people, think of fairy tale as Prince Charming sweeping the girl off her feet. I do realize that we live in a hetero-normative world, so while I have no problem with gay rights/marriage/adoption, I accept the fact that many in our society don't. Same with the way that I accept that our society is highly Christian, even if I myself am not overly religious. But I think the media does NOT accept these facts and reports based on their personal value system instead of trying to represent the value system of a large portion of Americans.

The liberals, being much smarter than the rest of us, accepted Better Red than Dead as evidence that fighting made no sense. The intelligent person accepted the inevitable and went on from there.
Gays? Piss off. You are not scaring the horses, you are just disgusting them.

WEW, I can't tell whether you are serious or not. If you study 20th century history, though, you'll see that liberals were actually much more willing to fight to restrain communism through most of the period, whereas conservatives tended to be isolationists who weren't worried about stopping the communists until they got to Maine. There is some evidence that Truman nuked Japan not so much to win WWII as to send Stalin a message. It was certainly Truman who sent troops to Korea. And for better or worse, Viet Nam really started under Kennedy and then LBJ.

The last liberal was Scoop Jackson. You lost your guts in Vietnam and have been looking for them since. That is why most blue collar democrats are now republicans. There are more important things in life than which party will offer you the biggest bribe for your vote. The liberal domocratic party is founded on the idea of how to bribe the electorate to vote for them. They stand for nothing but economic self interest. Hard to convince anyone to do anything difficult when that is their only motivation.

Now, now... Clinton cut welfare and balanced the budget. Bush created the prescription drug benefit, spends like mad, and runs up the government's credit cards so that he can still cut taxes. So tell me again who is trying to buy votes.

Hey Beth - some I'm friends with some I'm not. btw - some were also roommates. Guess everyone lives with people they don't like - right? This wasn't a condemnation of lesbians just my experience with the lesbians I've known.

Umm.. so I wonder if they would have described two male homosexuals as having a "fairy" tale romance. Just asking.

I understand where goldburgs written another book that realy takes down the hollywood and liberal idiots i hope to read it soon