trying to grok

Yes, contradictions are fun.

"Hussein has been absolutely devoted to trying to aquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons"
-Dick Cheney on 'Meet the Press,' March 16th, 2003.

Three days later war was declared. Maybe you can start to understand why some people might feel deceived when nothing but 1 (yes 1) shell with sarin was found. (Incidently, this is stuff that could only hurt people who would bother to enter the country in the first place - not really a threat to US security)

But Colin Powell told the UN, "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agents. That is enough agent to fill 16 000 battlefield rockets."

Hmm... conservative estimate... So who's really making the contradictions?

Consistent with intelligence from every country, including the previous administration. The question really is not one of existence, but location. He had them. Where are they now? That was what Saddam was supposed to reveal. He didn't. We now need to be concerned about who has them if they still exist.

I know that answer won't satisfy you because I'm sure you've heard it before.

Hey, have your guys ever heard of logical fallacy? How about cognitive dissonance?

I am not going to make some blanket statement about how all right wingers suffer from both these afflictions, but I think your assertion that only the left wing is contradictory reminds me of these problems.

In other words, contrary to your beliefs, you guys do not really have reasonable discussions here. Have fun talking to your echo chamber.

P.S. If you are coming to the RNC in NYC this September, you might see me since I live here. We are really looking forward to having you guys visit.

Wow. Logical fallacy and cognitive dissonance...someone just took a philosophy course!

Please explain because I don't see where my comment had any logical fallacy in it. I simply stated fact and asked a question.

Alt's article simply points out how voiced opinions have changed to suit a situation. I saw nothing there that wasn't true. Perhaps you can enlighten us. Perhaps you're saying the left suffers from cognitive dissonance?

Mike,

first, 'cognitive dissonance' is a psychological term, not a philosophical one.

second, logical fallacy:
x (present once) -> x (present now)

third... ugh, why bother? You have no intention of believing anyone who doesn't already agree with you. Straw man arguments and generalizations are a-ok to you if it concerns the left.

OK I am going to copy my comments from Bunker to here, but first a bit of levity from a good friend, and fellow history buff. Oh yeah he is a bit more to the left than I but I sure wouldn't want to cross him by calling him a traitor just because he had a difference of opinion with me ;-) and now the humor;
After his death, Osama bin Laden went to the gates of heaven. There he was greeted by George Washington, who proceeded to slap him across his face and yell at him, "How dare you try to destroy the nation I helped conceive!"
Patrick Henry appoached and punched Osama in the nose and shouted, "You wanted to end our liberties but you failed."
James Madison entered, kicked Osama in the groin and said, "This is why I allowed our government to provide for the common defense!"
Thomas Jefferson came in and proceeded to beat Osama many times with a long cane and said, "it was evil men like you that provided me the inspiration to pen the Declaration of Independence!"
These beatings and thrashings continued as John Rudolph, James Monroe and 66 other early Americans came in and unleashed their anger on the Muslim terrorist leader.
As Osama lay bleeding and writhing in unbearable pain, an Angel appeared. Bin Laden wept and said to the Angel, "This is not what you promised me!"
The Angel replied, "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you in heaven. What did you think I said?"

OK here is what I had to say over @ Bunker, and yeah I think "chicken-hawk" when I read vile spew like his:

Geez has Alt ever bothered to serve his nation in the military? I have mentioned that I lie a bit to the left of dead center. I suppose that makes me a (cover your eyes all you impressionable young wingers) LIBERAL!! I disagree with just about his whole screed and most people I know do also, EVEN THOSE THAT ARE A BIT TO THE RIGHT OF CENTER. What a crock that screed is. For you to think that everyone that thinks differently from you thinks exactly like what this buffoon wrote is why we can not communicate any more. Give me a frigging break.

And now for some additional points, why is it ok for Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity/Savage to engage in ad hominem attacks for 10 damned years, but as soon as anyone left of dead center says "Enough!!!" and returns serve it is suddenly "bad form" and "shrill"??
As I am sure many of you have figured out by now I am 46 years old. In addition to that info I offer the following: I am married and I have two children one differently-abled(the PC term, for the rest of us can you say Autism?) and the other is juvenile diabetic. I was fortunate enough to serve in the USAF entirely during "peace" time, but knew if called apon to go into a combat zone I would have to go. During my service the Iranian hostage fiasco took place and I lost some fellow airmen in that damned desert, I lost a friend near Dugway proving ground during "practice" for a second rescue attempt. I won't go into why he lost his life.......aw hell it was basicly a failure of leadership, because the Air Force didn't insist on all flight crew members being issued nomex flight suits, he was "crew-chief" (and in those days the crew chief flew with the bird) of an HH-53C and they lost tail rotor control, and the resulting "hard landing" cost the copter commander two shattered legs, and the flight engineer a broken back. Those were the only injuries, the crew-chief was soaked in JP-4 and was near the tail of the craft when a stray current caused a spark and......... well those who work on copters know how quickly they will burn. I was on the second bird in.... it was not a pretty sight. Well enough of that, a not so nice trip down my memory lane, all I ask is that we try to communicate with out resorting to the use of words like "traitor" and "liar" .

I just re-read that and I need to clarify, the vile spew I referred to was that of Alt, and not Mike @ BunkerMulligan. I can see where one could think I meant Bunker

Bubba, why on earth does Bunker make you think of a chickenhawk? He served mumble years (can't remember exact figure) in the military, so his opinion has every bit of the weight that yours does. And no one said that every single Lefty thinks all of these things Alt wrote, but you have to be able to admit that you've heard all of these arguments before! Lined up in a row is what makes them absurd.

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